最近科学网上关于宗教，科学包括进化论等关系的讨论，让我想起了华尔街日报去年圣诞节就同一个主题对英国喜剧演员Ricky Gervais（也是一位有名的无神论者）进行的以书面问答为形式的采访。在此之前Ricky在华尔街日报的博客里发表了一篇文章，阐述了他为什么不相信上帝的观点，从英国到美国都有相当的反响。这篇问答给我的印象深刻，一个是因为没有想到一位喜剧演员能那么严肃，自信又深入浅出地谈论这么一个复杂的话题，另外一个也是因为Ricky Gervais在这篇问答里除了表现他一贯的幽默，还展示了他对母亲满怀深情的一面。下面是他的访谈的部分，我把他们也顺便翻译了一下。从他的文章和回答看，我倒不认为他想贬低宗教或者它的影响，他的观点应该是两者根本就是两码事。相信Gervais先生非常欢迎大家去拍他（！）的砖:-)

 

Does God exist? Ricky Gervais takes your questions

上帝存在吗？Ricky Gervais 现在来回答你的问题（摘录）

(The Wall Street Journal, Dec. 22, 2010/ 华尔街日报，2010年12月22日)

 

1. Question: In your piece you write, that “Science is humble. It knows what it knows and it knows what it doesn’t know.” In fact, mainstream scientific thought has sometimes been wrong, and it is constantly changing and revising itself. So how can you be so sure that science supports your belief that God does not exist?

1. 问：在博客里你写道，“科学是卑微的。它知道它所知道的，也知道什么它并不知道。”在现实里，主流的科学理念不止一次被证明是错的，它不断地在变化和修改之中。你凭什么那么确定科学可以支持你的所谓上帝并不存在的观点呢？

Ricky Gervais: Science doesn’t concern itself with the non-existence of something…It’s not trying to prove the non-existence of anything supernatural. All it knows is there is no scientific proof of anything supernatural so far. When someone presents a jar of God it will test it. If it finds some evidence of “godness” it will follow the evidence till it knows everything it can.

The fact that science can say “we don’t know” is exactly my point. Science doesn’t start with a set of convenient conclusions and try to justify them. It follows evidence. In fact, it tries to prove itself wrong. When it can’t, it’s right. Superstition, religion and blind faith cherry pick the evidence and justify the results by changing the goal posts. There are no cover-ups in science. For better or worse it finds stuff out……

答：科学并不会为何物的不存在而烦恼。科学不会去尝试证明任何超自然的不存在。科学所知道的是直至现在为止还没有科学证据表明超自然是存在的。如果有人说有一罐上帝，科学一定会去测一测。如果找到了“上帝元素”的证据，它会一直跟踪直至水落石出。

我想说的就是科学可以说“我不知道”。科学是不从一组简便的结论开始然后试图去自圆其说的。科学追寻证据。事实上，科学会去试图证明自己是错的。当证明不了，结论才是对的。迷信，宗教还有盲目的信仰会对证据精挑细选，还会用改变目标的方法去试图自圆其说。但科学不做这种左遮右掩的事情。好也好不好也好它都会刨根问底……

 

2. Doesn’t the idea that God was somehow involved in the making of the universe seem immensely more reasonable than believing that some random form of matter has existed for all of time, or that matter just up and popped into existence?

2. 问：你不觉得上帝参与宇宙产生的解释比某种任意的物质一直存在着或突然间跳出来合情合理得多吗？ 

Ricky Gervais: So you’re asking whether it’s more plausible that everything in the known universe including man was made by a supernatural being, in 6 days, than from a massive explosion of matter that expanded and gradually became the known universe in all its beauty over the last 14 billion years? I don’t think so, no.

If you don’t know what made the universe it seems pointless to say a God must have made it then. You have to then say “But what made God?” If you are then willing to say that God was always around, you may as well say that the universe was too. Saves time doesn’t it? How long did he wait till he made the universe by the way? And where was he? Did it turn out just like he planned? If he had to make another one would he do it any different? Where would he put it?

答：你觉得怎么样的解释更合情合理呢- 宇宙的一切包括人类都由一种超自然的存在在6天之内创造完毕，还是在过去140亿年里从物质膨胀爆炸开始逐步变成我们所认识的美丽的宇宙？不，我不认为前者更合理。 

而且如果你不知道什么是宇宙，说上帝一定是宇宙的创造者似乎毫无意义。你就得说“那什么创造了上帝呢？” 如果你愿意说上帝总是存在，那或者你也可以说宇宙也永远存在。更不费时间对吧？顺便问一下，知道上帝等了多久才创造宇宙吗？他那时在哪里？他创造出来的宇宙和他的设想吻合吗？如果他得再创造一个，他会造个不一样的吗？他打算把它摆在哪儿呢？

 

3. Wasn’t science also used to justify slavery, genocide and the subjugation of women? Why should we trust science when it comes to God?

3. 问：科学不也用来支持奴隶制，种族清洗和对妇女的压迫吗？在上帝这个问题上我们为什么要相信科学？ 

Ricky Gervais: When was science used to justify slavery, genocide and the subjugation of women? There are bad people who believe in God and bad people who don’t but neither can claim to have science on their side when they commit their deeds. I don’t know who’s been going round saying that science justifies any of those things. It certainly doesn’t and anyone who says it does is taking the name of science in vain. Many theories try to wear the badge of science to give their practices credibility but the badge is a forgery. Religion even tries to claim scientific evidence but fails. Astrology wants to be recognized as a science. It isn’t. Real science comes along and shows them the door. Its only agenda is truth. It doesn’t wish something were true. It finds out whether something is or isn’t true. Believing something is true simply because you wish it was, isn’t science. It’s faith.

答：什么时候科学支持过奴隶制，种族清洗和对妇女的压迫？世界上有信上帝的坏人，也有不信上帝的坏人，但没有任何人可以说科学能够支持他们的暴行。我不知道都是谁在说这些是有科学理论依据的。它们没有科学理论依据，如果谁说有，他是以科学为名故弄玄虚。很多所谓理论都试图戴上科学的勋章，好让它们变得更加可信，但那个勋章是假的。宗教也试图用科学依据支持但并没有成功。占星学也希望被认为是科学。但它不是。真正的科学一来，它们就得跑了。因为发现真理才是科学的唯一目的。科学不期待着什么应该是真的。它去发现什么是真的，或者不是真的。如果仅凭你希望什么是真的便相信那是真的，那不是科学。那是信仰。

4. People who believe in God sometimes have moments of doubt about their faith. Have you had any moments of doubt about your atheism?

4. 问：相信上帝的人有时也对他们的信仰产生疑问。你怀疑过你的无神论吗？ 

Ricky Gervais: Atheism isn’t a belief system. I have a belief system but it’s not “based on” atheism, it’s just not based on the existence of a god. I make none of my moral, social, or artistic decisions based on any god or superstitions. Saying atheism is a belief system is like saying not going skiing is a hobby. I’ve never been skiing. It’s my biggest hobby. I literally do it all the time. But to answer your question I am constantly faced with theories of God, and angels, and hell. It’s everywhere. But unless there is an ounce of credibility to it, I reject. I have to. You can’t lie to yourself…..

答：无神论不是一个信仰体系。我有我的信仰体系，但它并不以无神论为“基础”，它不以上帝存不存在为基础。我所有的在道德，社会或者艺术上做的决定都与上帝或迷信无关。说无神论是一个信仰体系就好比说不去滑雪是人的一个爱好一样。对啊，我从不滑雪，这是我最大的爱好了，因为我每天都从不滑雪。不过要回答你的问题，我无时无刻不在面对关于上帝，天使还有地狱的各种理论。它们无处不在。但除非他们对我来说有一盎司的可信度，我会拒绝。我需要这样做。因为你不能对自己撒谎……

 

5. How do you plan on celebrating Christmas?

5. 问：你打算怎么庆祝圣诞节？ 

Ricky Gervais: Eating and drinking too much with friends and family. Celebrating life and remembering those that did, but can no longer.

They are not looking down on me but they live in my mind and heart more than they ever did probably. Some, I was lucky enough to bump into on this planet of six billion people. Others shared much of my genetic material. One selflessly did her best for me all my life. That’s what mums do though. They do it for no other reason than love. Not for reward. Not for recognition. They create you. From nothing. Miracle? They do those every day. No big deal. They are not worshiped. They would give their life without the promise of heaven. They teach you everything they know yet they are not declared prophets. And you only have one.

I am crying as I write this.

It usually gets me this time of year. That’s what’s special about Christmas. It’s when you visit or reminisce about the ones you love. And reflect on how lucky you are. How they helped shape you……

 

答：和朋友亲人吃吃喝喝啊。为生命喝彩，也去怀念那些曾经有过但已经永远失去的。

他们没有从上面往下看着我，但他们一直活在我的脑海里和我的心里，可能比他们在世时都多得多。有些人，我有幸在这个有六十亿人口的星球上相遇。有些人和我有着差不多一样的遗传物质。有一位无私地为我奉献了一生。好像母亲们都这样。她们的奉献不为了任何别的，只为了爱。不是为回报。不是为表扬。她们创造你。从无到有。奇迹吗？这是母亲们每天都做的事。没什么大不了的。她们不被当成神一样崇拜。她们会在没有天堂的许诺下随时愿意贡献她们的生命。她们教你她们所知道的一切却不会被奉为先知。而你只有一位（母亲）。

写到这里我泪流满面。

每年的这个时候都是最触动我的。这就是圣诞节的特别。它让你去看望或者回忆那些你所爱的人。让你回顾你是多么的幸运，回顾他们怎么帮助你成为你……

 

 备注；照片来源于网络。

 

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