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美国SFN学术论战实录(1)氢原子电磁辐射与稳定态(VII)

已有 2202 次阅读 2015-5-7 17:03 |个人分类:物质结构|系统分类:论文交流| 学术争论, 原子结构, SFN

studiot

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 02:40 PM

 

 

Jeremy 0922

A scientific theory or model about nature must obey scientific rules,such as logic, causality, and could completely not partially be confirmed by the facts

 

 

Well that is not the way we learn, teach or practice Science from an early level.

 

Take for instance the typical highschool maths questions

 

'A mass M is suspended from a light inextensible string...............'

 

A rigid rod of length l supports two blocks....'

 

'A frictionless pulley.....'

 

Yet these methods yield reproducible results adequate for many purposes.

 

People every day bet their lives on calculations known to be inaccurate or based on known false assumptions because observation (experience) has shown that those calculations are adequate for purpose.

 

 

Sometimes we have results without explanation and scientific theories are offered a conceivable explanations, such as the reversing magnetic fields of Earth, but we do not rely on them because they also predict effects we do not observe.

 

Sometimes we have theories that offer apparantly good explanations and the authors of better ones struggle against the establishment to promote them, (isotasy v plate techtonics for instance), but usually further observations come to light which weed out the inadequate.

 

These days we seek corroboration or exception more actively than ever, because we are aware of this.

 

But we should always be wary of specifying how any theory 'should be' .

 

I said 'adequate through experience' above this is a process that gives us increasing confidence in a theory as we make more and more observations that agree with its predictions, but fail to find exceptions.

 

This is the case with Quantum Mechanics,

 

And I commend it to the House.


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#122 Jeremy0922
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Posted 15 October 2014 - 03:09 PM

please compare your work along side of traditional methods.

i would also like to see why you need it ( what makes it useful).

sometimes it is all about presentation...

Please see my paper:http://blog.sciencen...uo.pdf&id=55724


 

Empty claim. You need to actually SHOW that it is wrong.

 

because the theoritical coordinates is not the experimental coordinates


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#123 Strange
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Posted 15 October 2014 - 03:25 PM

because the theoritical coordinates is not the experimental coordinates

 

No, not explain why you think it is wrong. You need to actually SHOW that it is wrong. Quantitatively. In appropriate mathematical detail.


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#124 Bignose
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Posted 15 October 2014 - 04:06 PM

because the theoritical coordinates is not the experimental coordinates


Jeremy,

this is a large scope question.

In science, the main metric of how good an idea is: how accurate of predictions does it make.

In many ways, it doesn't matter if the idea is based upon the wishing of fairies riding unicorns, the most perfect logic, or the most imperfect broken logic.

If the idea predicts x, and we measure it as x.... then that idea is scientifically strong.

On the other hand, if an idea predicts x and we measure y, then clearly there is an error of (x-y).

Logic has failed us before. At one time, it was logical to think that earth was flat. x=flat earth. But, when we finally measured y=mostly spherical earth, then clearly the idea that predicted x was wrong.

For us to believer your idea, appeals to 'logic' alone doesn't matter.

Today, we measure y about the state of an atom.
You are predicting x.
Current best theory predicts z.

We know what z-y is.

Please show us what x-y is. Show us what predictions your idea makes. That is the most important thing right now. Appeals to 'logic' aren't going to get you any more support. If you want support, demonstrate that your idea makes really good predictions that agree with what is measured.

Edited by Bignose, 15 October 2014 - 04:26 PM.

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#125 Strange
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Posted 15 October 2014 - 04:36 PM

Related to that, it is quite possible to have multiple theories to explain some phenomenon.

 

For example, both Newtonian gravity and GR make predictions about the effects of gravity. In many cases, they are equally accurate. In some cases, GR is (significantly) more accurate. That does not mean that GR is "true" and Newton is "false". (Or that one is more "logical" than the other.) One model is more accurate than the other. That's all.


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#126 Jeremy0922
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Posted 15 October 2014 - 06:03 PM

Please note a simple fact follow:

In different coordinates, the observing results are different for a moving particle. the result in a coordinte could be transferred by coordinates transformation relationship, and will be the same as the result in other coordinate. Coordinate transformation is the correct method for treatment of results in different coordinates.

So, if the transformation relationship between two coordinates is unknow or uncertain, the results in these two coordinates can not be compared.


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#127 Bignose
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Posted 15 October 2014 - 07:29 PM

Coordinate transformation is the correct method for treatment of results in different coordinates.


This can be demonstrated by showing us that your coordinates make as good or better predictions than the existing methods.

See my note above. Make predictions, not 'logic'.

Show us that your idea is actually useful.

Basically, you're asking us to drop something -- a something that is has demonstrated it can make really good predictions that agree very closely to what is measured -- to something that cannot make any predictions. Why would anyone do that?!? Why get rid of something useful for something that hasn't demonstrated any usefulness?

"Hey, I'm going to chop off my hand because I've heard that a pointy stick is better. Sure, no one's given me a pointy stick yet to try, but I'm going to trust Billy Bob because he told it was true......"
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#128 Phi for All
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Posted 15 October 2014 - 09:49 PM

!

Moderator Note

OK, 7 pages is more than enough time to provide adequate support for an idea, if such support exists. None has been forthcoming, so the thread will be closed per Speculation section rules. Don't open this topic again unless you can provide some tangible evidence for it.







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